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Global Investors Podcast
GI79: From Single Family to Over 500 Multifamily Doors with Sterling White
December 23, 2020
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Sterling White is a seasoned Real Estate Investor, Philanthropist, Speaker, Host & Mentor, who was born and raised, in Indianapolis, Indiana. Author of the renowned book “From Zero to 400 Units”, host of a phenomenal podcast which hit the #1 spot on Investing Category – The Real Estate Experience Podcast.

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Transcript:

Announcer:
Welcome to the Global Investors Podcast, a show that focuses on helping foreign investors enter the lucrative US real estate market. Host, Charles Carillo, combined decades of real estate investing experience with a professional background in international banking to interview experts in all areas of US real estate investing. Now here’s your host, Charles Carillo.

Charles:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast; I’m your host Charles Carillo. Today we have Sterling White. Sterling has been a real estate investor for 10 years and currently has ownership in nearly 500 units, worth approximately $30 million; made up of both multifamily apartments and single-family homes. So thank you so much for being on the show Sterling.

Sterling:
Yeah, so greatly appreciate being a guest on here. And also I have exited out of all those single families, so no longer own it of those.

Charles:
Awesome. Okay. So you’re, you’re primarily in a multifamily investor

Sterling:
All multi-family at this point in time. And for those of you up on here, go head strap yourselves in because we’re going to take you along for a ride.

Charles:
So Sterling, give us a little background on yourself prior to starting to invest in real estate about decade ago.

Sterling:
Yeah. So I will just start from childhood and I’ll give everyone just like a little cliff compact version. So single mother, fraternal twin brother, and grew up in the neighborhoods that when people would drive through them, especially at nighttime, they would lock their doors and then also roll up the windows. And so section eight, housing, welfare food stamps. And I remember there was one case my brother and I, we were actually sitting eating dinner at the in the kitchen area. And it was like Roman noodles and cut up hot dogs. And as soon as we go upstairs, a bullet comes right through the back patio where we were sitting. So I may not be, or he may not be here, but ended up not being a product of that environment. And whole entrepreneurial spirit came into existence for me is my very first product in elementary days was Kool-Aid then shifted to Pokemon cards and the anything I could get my hands on in the legal sense. And then fast forward got started in real estate. This was 2009 construction side. Shortly after that found a mentor bought my very first deal, 23 years old. This was a single family house. And then 2017 made the entire ship to multi-family show

Charles:
You start it from the other side of the investment spectrum on, in construction. So why did you choose real estate as your investment vehicle? Was it just because you saw them making all this money on their side? Was there something else?

Sterling:
Yeah, just from studying the wealthy, I saw that they didn’t make their money because I was a labor. I was the one mixing up the mortar for the brick layers and then providing it to them and other odd jobs. So that’s not how really people get wealth for, it’s not sustainable to become wealthy. And I saw ultimately that it was through the passive income side through buy and hold. And that’s when I ended up making the shift.

Charles:
So tell us about your first couple of real estate investments obviously started in single family with a mentor. What were they like? You know, what went wrong? What went right?

Sterling:
I would say a lot more things went wrong than they did, right. And more than happy to elaborate on those. But the first thing that I say I did right. Was one, I did not let my limiting beliefs dictate as not getting started whatsoever because one, I was completely broke. I actually had negative funds in my bank account cause I just, overdrew it not being financially smart. And then also I really didn’t have the experience, but I had the time and the hustle. And so from that was, I just found someone who complimented my weaknesses, found someone who had the experience. And in addition to that had the cash and this person was actually at my CrossFit gym. And it was one of those things that when the student is ready, the teacher shall arise and I approached them and said, how can I help you in your business? Because he was already in real estate. And I say, here’s the kicker. You don’t have to pay me anything. So that’s how I got my internship. You could say in a way. And then there was a point where interesting enough, he said, I want to diversify from multi-family to single family. Normally it’s the other way around. And that was, he said, I don’t have the time to find the deal, Sterling, go find the deal. And then that’s how it really started from there.

Charles:
So that’s, that’s great. So you were, you were, you were sourcing the deals and he was sourcing the capital. And I imagine you guys were then partners on managing the, the, the projects, is that correct?

Sterling:
Correct. And he had majority, it was 90% equity to him and 10% to me. And I thought long-term, instead of just taking a simple wholesale fee, I requested to have equity in the deal.

Charles:
Yeah, that’s great. That’s definitely not what they teach you in normal wholesaling. It’s usually people that need quick cash and they they just, they want it right away and they’re not looking the longterm years down the road. So it’s great that you had that from, from the onset. So let’s fast forward a little bit. So you’re now you’ve you founded a company called Saundra investment group. What is your current strategy there? Where are you guys investing? What are you looking for?

Sterling:
Yeah, so here in the Midwest and primarily here in, based in Indianapolis and target other markets in Cincinnati, Ohio, Columbus, Ohio, and then addition to Louisville, Kentucky have an 80 unit there in Lexington, Kentucky, and other markets within Missouri. And so it’s purchasing assets, the whole value add, which of course that’s loosely thrown out there, but have shifted the model from older C-Class assets that have quite a bit of deferred maintenance and now targeting assets that are built between 1980 to 2000 that have less deferred maintenance in terms of having to go in and do a lot of heavy lifting

Charles:
Your company. Are, is your main focus on raising the money asset management? Is it sourcing deals?

Sterling:
Everything is vertically integrated except the property management elements. So we’re targeting apartments between 75 to 175 units and we sourced. So we’re the ones we actually go direct to owner versus doing the broker approach. We still nurture those relationships, but go direct and then also do the capital raising in house and then on the backend, the asset management, but also the property management third party and flows up to the asset manager.

Charles:
Awesome. Yeah. I want to get into sourcing deals in one second, but you have, if you’re doing everything vertically integrated, how are you managing 500 units in different States, in different markets?

Sterling:
So from the standpoint, I will have to backpedal like a defensive back on the football team is when I met vertically integrated. So technically not vertically integrated when you take into consideration, not managing our own assets. So formerly was managing, but now third party. So from that case is now use multiple property management companies in those different markets.

Charles:
Nice, nice. So you guys are handling everything up to the property management in house, which is a normal thing for most indicators. I don’t, I don’t think many syndicators are handling all of their property management. In-House very rarely you hear that. So

Sterling:
And normally it’s two, when they hit a certain capacity, let’s say a thousand units, or even more than that, then they will decide to bring it in. Because one thing that I learned is I built a property management company, which now is my third party management cup because I exited out of that company, but that’s a whole nother conversation, but in essence, is that doing acquisitions and also property management. Those are two separate businesses in themselves. So that was one thing looking back is, Hey, it would have been preferable just to focus on one thing and then bring the third party.

Charles:
Yeah, no, when I started out, it was I did everything and then I kind of was pushed into having a third-party manager and it was like the best thing. It was kind of one of those things where, because now you’re like you said, now you can really focus on building the business, not just managing what you have, because obviously after something’s really value added and you’ve done the work to it it doesn’t require that much onsite, you know, for you being onsite and being a project manager. I mean, you’re really just managing systems in place. So

Sterling:
Exactly. Especially when you acquire a apartment that is over 75 units. Now you actually have a team on site, a community manager, as well as the maintenance techs. So now you can manage that team from afar, but if you’re doing of course, a more heavy lifting project, then that’s when it’s even more intensive to be hands-on.

Charles:
Yeah. And then your property management fees are a fraction of what they would be on a small complex or a small portfolio. So so let’s talk about sourcing deals because it’s something where in the syndication realm, it’s very unheard of to be going direct to seller. I mean, we do direct mailing to smaller multi-families it’s how do you, how are you if you’re focusing on 75 to 175 units how are you sourcing those off market? What have you found to be the best methods for, I guess, circumventing a broker or going, you know, how, how you, how you would have found them.

Sterling:
Yeah. And one thing I want to mention Charles is direct to owner versus direct to seller because a lot of these individuals are not even in the market to sell whatsoever. And one thing I want to mention to everyone on here, just the context is, but broker sends you over a deal. It’s not one of those things that you go around the broker and then go direct to owner. That’s a huge, no-no it’s more of, we decided to build our own list. And then from there we do our own prospecting. So we use a database such as either Reonomy and I’m not affiliated with the the easiest reonomy.com either or costar.com. And from there is we’ll pull apartments that are over between 75, to 175 units. We’ll comb through that to find the ones that actually fit our criteria. And then from there, we’ll skip trace to find who the owners are of those majority of the time they’re in the LLC. So you have to go the extra mile. And then once we’ve come through, that is that’s when we’ll start the actual outbound calls.

Charles:
So when you’re, when you’re building the database and you’re looking for just these type properties, obviously you’re using a lot of techniques from your single family days because they’re are common things for wholesaling, other than the LLC, most properties that you’re wholesaling, single family aren’t owned by an LLC, but a lot of them are own usually just, and you find their name and you’re already done the hard work, but so you’re going the extra mile. You’re digging through all the LLCs. Now, when you skip trace it, are you going through, what’s the main, what’s the first are you mailing first? Are you then calling Cold call? Okay.

Sterling:
Yep. Cold call is the very first step. And I would say for everyone who was on here, the absolute game changer for me, and please just write this down. If you can, if there’s one thing you could get a takeaway from this, it is the follow up. The followup has been what really, just from personal experience here that separates the novices from the newbies or the newbies for the novices novices from the amateurs, amateurs, from the pros, et cetera. And from that is, it takes between the six to eight a tip just to get in contact with the person. And many of the times they’re not interested in selling. So the 80 unit that we acquired, this was in Louisville, Kentucky. This was about a year and a half ago, is it took seven times just to get in touch with one of the decision-makers of the property. They were interested. And then it took additional follow-ups of I’m here in Indianapolis, and I would make trips to Louisville, Kentucky. So it would be Monday. And I would say his name’s bill, I’m actually going to be in the market. This upcoming Thursday would enjoy getting a face to face and see how we can bring that. So along those lines, in terms of just constantly staying in touch and it’s just about one, no seven expectation, multiple attempts just to get a contact. And then lot of times you’re not interested. You just gotta keep following up and create a follow-up to stay top of mind. Cause it comes down to timing.

Charles:
So what does the other, this is something that I’ve found when dealing with multi-families versus contacting single homes. Usually when you’re you’re funding, you’re wholesaling, you’re finding single family homes. You’re finding properties that the people are in a hardship, right? With multifamily, it’s not always, it’s not always the situation. You’ll find it where people, even if it’s the beginning covert or wherever it was, and you’re talking to people and they S you know, so many people are paying rent. You know, a few people are paying late, but they don’t have to sell a property it’s financially covering their debt. They’re doing so. Is it just staying top of mind in the sense of just telling them when you’re ready to sell? Is it waiting for that life change? I mean, usually when we do it, I’ll put it out like maybe three months or six months to follow up with them. Is that normally how you’re doing it, or you’re doing it a lot less than that.

Sterling:
So this is a rabbit hole in the way, and then there’s a context on how they express the not interests. And then also there’s other key elements too. So for that property that was in Louisville, Kentucky is one one of the trips that I’ve made down there, cause I made multiple trips just to really build the relationship. And whenever I make a trip out to a property with an owner, I also set up other meetings too. That’s a little hack for everyone in case that one falls through, you’ve got other ones to go go to and gosh, what was I going to mention on that, Charles? Where are we going with that

Charles:
Follow? We were talking about follow up timeframes and Stuff like that.

Sterling:
Oh yes. And so this property was 60 to 65% occupied for the course of a year, a year and a half. And he mentioned some of those units that I’d walked through. They had not walked through in months. So that was one of those that they mentioned not interested at this point in time but somewhere in the near future. So that’s one where I’ve been stayed even more consistent and aggressive because I saw that there was a downward spiral with the property itself. And then also the son was the one that got thrown into the fire to manage the property, no experience in business, let alone property management. However, if I call an owner and then they mentioned that they had owned it, let’s say six years and they plan on passing it down to their relatives. Then that’s someone I’ll push it down a little bit further along.

Charles:
Okay. Yeah. I, I, and you like in the followup too, I’ve found so many different things where people are like, no, not selling it a few months later, then they’re saying that you know what, I found something else. I want a 10 31 and two, and you’re just keeping in contact with them. It’s amazing what can happen. And you got to have a great CRM for what you’re doing for keeping track of everything, but it’s it’s a whole different, you’re dealing with a whole different like person went between this and single family. So if anybody here has ever direct mail about the single family, you have to change your tactics a little bit because you’re dealing with a different, you know, different person, most likely a Morrison

Sterling:
Sophisticated. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. More sophisticated. Oftentimes, and I had a deal the other day. This was a very small deal that just came across it, that it was four months ago. We reached out to them. They said, not interested in selling, but you could really see that there was some hesitation and I no longer make the calls. I have a team that does it and then followed up a month later. They said, yeah, I’m ready to sell. So that goes to show you what, how quickly things can change. And we’re, we’re actually closing on it this week, but that goes to show you how quickly things can change. And that’s why it’s so important to stay follow up. Even though you get kicked in the face, someone says not interested in some very, not so nice things. Things can change and they may even, well, oftentimes they won’t call you, but still just think top of mind.

Charles:
Yeah, it’s amazing too, because we just picked up out of a portfolio. It was 90 units. There’s a 22 unit that was mom and pop operated. And they were paying the F the owner was paying his soon to be ex son-in-law 15% to manage it. And I mean, it just was like crazy where this is going on. And you’re just as invested, like, Oh my God, this is great. Like, there’s so much fat here on the phone, you know what I mean? Kind of thing. But it’s, you have to really, you know, when you’re talking to them, when you’re done, you’re not going to know that upfront. You’re just going to know that obviously when he bought it, he wasn’t planning on his daughter being divorced. So it was just, you keep it, you nurture it. And then at that point when they’re like, you know, this is not what I wanted when I invested in this and you’re there to kind of scoop it up. So so how do you, I mean, imagine you guys definitely work with brokers as well because we’re dealing with larger apartment complexes. So tell me how you work with brokers. Are you picking them out in different areas? Obviously, is it a focus of yours or is it just something that’s complimentary to what you’re doing?

Sterling:
Yeah, it’s more of complimentary it’s. I mean, it has been close. I had a broker send over a deal. This was a 2018 built newly constructed in Louisville, just over a hundred units. And in which the average rates were about $900 and I did the underwriting and I said, there’s really not much in terms of being able to push up the rents. And I said, this is the most we could pay for it. $7 million. They came back and said, this, the owner wants 12 and a half. It’s like, and one thing, I always look at the price per door, specially here, when it comes to the Midwest is if the rents are $900 in the PR and the operator’s looking for 120,000 per door, I just know that without even going into the trenches, isn’t even going to be close for our numbers. So that’s how things have been working with my relationship with brokers so far.

Charles:
Okay. Yeah. It, it really you have to it’s if you’re going to actually source and use brokers, it’s really, you need someone in your team that’s really going to spend full time job to source the deals. And if that’s your specialty, when you’re partnering with someone that’s great. But it’s also something that takes a lot of work for them to actually send you something that’s actually going to pencil. And they know what they’re sending out is going to be high. I mean, they’ve spoken to the owners, if they’re actually active in that market, they’re going to know exactly that, Hey, this is kind of crap. I’ll send to this new guy that’s calling me. But I mean, it’s just, it’s just something that happened. So that’s great that you still get it and you’re working with them. It’s just a whole different Avenue with the, with off, off market.

Sterling:
And I’m glad you did point that out because it’s Two different. If, if you’re gonna go the brokers route, definitely have someone keyed in on that. And then if you’re going to go, the off-market route, I’m telling you the off-market route is you could say another business in a system in itself. So it’s, of course, if you’re doing one thing, then that detracts your, your focus from the other.

Charles:
Yeah, no, for sure. That’s great. Yeah. And then also you know, you’re, you’re going to be co you’re going to be doing a lot more work in legwork when you’re dealing with sourcing the deals directly, but then hopefully there’s not someone else there competing alongside you. And obviously if you’re buying mom and pops or something from small investment groups, they might not have the best records. So you’re spending part of your time, like putting together financials and stuff. And you’re like, ah, so I know exactly what’s going on, but that’s, that’s what you’re getting the discount. And you’re also getting that. So they’re not like, Hey, you’re the 24th bidder on this property, you know?

Sterling:
Yeah. And so the 156 unit that we acquired here in Indianapolis, we got close to minimally a $1 billion discount, if that would have sold on the open market. But of course there’s a lot of nos that go into that from the front end. There in terms of the financials that were provided was very ugly, more legwork versus when you have a broker, they’re the ones that’s assisting with servicing. And then also the brokers is doing all the front end leg work for you. But with that is you oftentimes have the competition because other people don’t have the time to build out a system to do the direct approach. So that’s why they go to the broker.

Charles:
Yeah, for sure. Exactly. So they’re sending it out and if you’re getting an email from one of the large national brokers, I mean, they have a list of that, that you’re on. That is huge. And they’re going to find someone to pay it, especially if you’re in one of these markets that people are coming in from other States where it’s not landlord friendly. So so you’re, you’re coaching your mentor to an end. You speak to a number of investors. So give me a couple of different, common mistakes that you see new investors make.

Sterling:
I would say the patients element of things, of course, when you want to move with speed at the same time, but some individuals just have the unrealistic what is it? Yeah. Expectations of what it takes at the end of the day. I was speaking to someone and let’s just go back to the up is they said direct mail is not working. And I asked them, how many times did you hit the lists? They told me one time, Charles, I almost, so there there’s that expectation. And then how much amount of work goes into actually taking these deals down? Because of course we’ve got the social media that just highlights taking the deal down in itself. Oh, close on this apartment complex, but no one sees all of the work all of the months and rejection that led up to that. So I would just say the expectations. And then also in addition to that, the patients,

Charles:
How would you suggest someone prepare themselves who wants to start investing in real estate? I would say sure. Start with

Sterling:
The mental one quick story for everyone is one that was very pivotal for me is this was my early twenties. It really changed the trajectory of my life. So I was at this college party having a good time doing what college kids do. And I ended up veering away from the crowd. And I’m out in the middle of this boat in the middle of this Lake or pine, whichever it was. But there’s this beaming question that comes down to me, assist Sterling. Is this what you want to do with your life? And up until that point, I was really just drifting into average land. And I answer back to that question. No, this is not. And then after that, I cut off all my friends because they were not going where I wanted to go. Great people a second was I cut out the news. And then third was I focused on mindset because what I did was I replaced a lot of limiting beliefs and replaced them with more empowering. So when I made that shift, Charles from construction to investing, I didn’t think of all the barriers I just said, how can I do this versus, okay, that’s a barrier. I’m not going to be able to get through it.

Charles:
Right. Okay. Yeah. The news is one thing that will drive you insane if you listen to it.

Sterling:
And everyone says, Oh, you’re here. How can you not, I don’t hear it anymore. But how, how could you not watch the news? You gotta be informed if something is important enough, someone will let you know, my mom will let me know.

Charles:
Yeah. That’s the thing too, is with how the new thing is set now, not to go down a rabbit hole, but it’s everything’s told that it’s your problem. Well, you know, most of the news, it’s not my problem and there’s nothing I can do about it. So why am I, you know what I mean? So but so what do you suggest to new investors to start with single family like you did or small multi-family before going into syndications and larger projects, or

Sterling:
So I am going to pull from both ends. If you can go larger by all means, do that. However, what helped me and if I were to go do it all over again, I would still start with single family because lower barrier to entry was able to get my foot in the door. And the snowball went from there. Versus I wouldn’t want someone to come with the excuse that I’m not able to go to. The, the largest D is in the event that you do go to a larger deal have someone back in, I just a personal experience here that you can ride along with them versus taking all the risk on yourself.

Charles:
Yeah. If you’re able to get someone to ride, let allow you to ride along and you can bring value to it, which might be tougher for new investors to find. But I started off with like three family multi-family and you could get that fixed long-term debt, which I tell people now, you know, don’t do anything. That’s like variable, start off with something fixed long-term debt on your first project. Minimal work to be done on the property, almost turnkey. And we make sure you have reserves. And at that point, you really very difficult to lose. Right? It’s when people go and they’re like, Oh, I got to I’m moving walls and we’re doing this. And we’re doing like, that’s not what you want for your first project is something that’s like, they saved turnkey, which means it still needs some work, but it’s something that you can do, you know what I mean, yourself with a handyman and this or that, whatever. But

Sterling:
Yeah, if someone mentions to me that, Oh, it’s currently two or three bedrooms I can move this one. I’m like, Oh man, you’re talking about boom. That’s that’s quite a bit to do.

Charles:
Yeah, no for sure. I I think it’s also too is depending on who, the one who is showing them the properties too. So you get a realtor that never worked with investors and they’re like, Oh yeah, it’s not bad. You can, this closet can be a bathroom in no time, you know? But so what do you think are the main factors that have contributed to your success? Sterling

Sterling:
Mindset is one. I would say that is huge one person that really I’m dating myself and I’m not even know, but in essence is Earl Nightingale. Earl Nightingale is the, they say the, the Dean of gosh, what is it? Self development. And that was one person that came across when I had that pivotal moment. Of course, the Tony Robbins Zig Ziglar’s the Jim Rohn’s. So there’s that mindset huge for me. Second is mentorship. That was very powerful. I went into college debt about $30,000 worth of that. Dropped out to focus full-time on real estate, got nothing from that debt. And then from the actual mentorship, I would’ve paid close to a million dollars from that. And yeah, that’s just a personal experience share how vital that was for me. And then the third is just learning sales. Sales is everything. And not even just in business, but in life.

Charles:
Yeah. That’s a hundred percent. That’s definitely, it doesn’t matter where you are on the spectrum of it as being a partner. If you’re the analytical person there’s still sales involved, if you’re asset management, property management, sales and fall, for sure when you’re dealing with tenants and contractors. So let’s talk more about you. You have a podcast, you’re an author. Tell us more about other businesses you operate with within the realm of real estate.

Sterling:
Yeah. So primary focus is on the acquisitions in the apartment side syndications also assist individuals that are looking to get coached along. But my main mission is really just being an ideal and the message for those individuals that came from the environment that I came from that, Hey, you don’t have to take this common path that most people do take, which unfortunately, my brother took his facing hard time, but Hey, this is a different direction that you could take in. Here’s how I took it. And here’s the blueprint ultimately.

Charles:
Awesome. Okay. So starting tell us about how people can learn more about you and your businesses.

Sterling:
Yeah. So one, you can follow me on the Instagram Sterling, white official, one more time, that Sterling wide official. And then there’s my website, which is Sonder investment group.com. That is S O N D E R investment group.com.

Charles:
Okay, awesome. So I will put all those links into the podcast notes and the YouTube notes. And thanks so much for coming on today.

Sterling:
Thank you, Charles.

Charles:
Talk to you soon.

Charles:
Hi guys! It’s Charles from the Global Investors Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you’re interested in get involved with real estate, but you don’t know where to begin, set up a free 30 minute strategy call with me at schedulecharles.com. That’s schedulecharles.com. Thank you.

Announcer:
Thank you for listening to the Global Investors Podcast. If you’d like to show, be sure to subscribe on iTunes or Google play to get new weekly episodes. For more resources and to receive our newsletter, please visit global investor podcast.com and don’t forget to join us next week for another episode.

Announcer:
Nothing in this episode should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Any investment opportunities mentioned on this podcast are limited to accredited investors. Any investments will only be made with proper disclosure, subscription documentation, and are subject to all applicable laws. Please consult an appropriate tax legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of Syndication Superstar incorporated exclusively.

Links and Contact Information Mentioned In The Episode:

About Sterling White

Sterling White is a seasoned Real Estate Investor, Philanthropist, Speaker, Host & Mentor, who was born and raised, in Indianapolis, Indiana. Author of the renowned book “From Zero to 400 Units”, host of a phenomenal podcast that hit the #1 spot on Investing Category – The Real Estate Experience Podcast.

Breathing and living real estate since 2009, Sterling currently owns multiple businesses related to real estate – Sterling White Enterprises, Sonder Investment Group and other investment partnerships.

Throughout the span of a decade, Sterling has contributed to helping others become successful in the real estate industry. In addition, he has been directly involved with both buying and selling over 100 single-family homes.

Sterling’s primary specialties include Sales, Marketing, Crowdfunding, Buy & Hold Investing, Investment Properties, and many more.

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