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Global Investors Podcast
GI56: From Attorney To Over $100 Million In Commercial Real Estate with Ellie Perlman
July 15, 2020
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Ellie Perlman is a real estate investor who owns multifamily properties across the U.S. Ellie is the Founder and CEO of Blue Lake Capital, a real estate investing firm specializing in multifamily investments. At Blue Lake Capital, Ellie helps investors grow their wealth by investing alongside her in large multifamily deals.

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Transcript:

Announcer:
Welcome to the Global Investors Podcast, a show that focuses on helping foreign investors enter the lucrative US real estate market. Host, Charles Carillo, combined decades of real estate investing experience with a professional background in international banking to interview experts in all areas of US real estate investing. Now here’s your host, Charles Carillo.

Charles:
Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast. I’m your host Charles Carillo. Today we have Ellie Perlman. Ellie started her career as a commercial real estate lawyer in Israel before transitioning to becoming a property manager, multifamily syndicator and coach. Ellie holds a Masters in Law and an MBA from MIT. So thanks so much for being on the show, Ellie.

Ellie:
Absolutely. Charles, thank you so much for having me.

Charles:
Yeah, no for sure. It’s great. So tell us a little bit about yourself, your background prior to starting to invest in real estate.

Ellie:
Yeah, so, you know, today I’m almost 30 years old. So I guess my, my journey starts, you know, 38 years years ago in Israel, I was born to a pretty poor family and I was really determined to kind of break that poverty cycle and provide for myself. And I wasn’t sure how to do it because I looked around me and people who owned real estate actually were wealthy and I thought you needed to have a lot of money to invest. And for me, the way to break out of the poverty cycle was to educate myself. That’s the only tool that I had. And I basically spent all the time that I had in getting straight A’s and getting, you know, the college to law school and kind of slowly moved up the ladder. And basically when I was about 18 years old, I decided to get married which seemed to be like the right decision back then. I was also very religious and it kind of everything kind of made sense at that point. And, and still, you know, with the new husband and then you, you know, life, I try to make it a work, going to school, working two, three jobs, even sometimes with kind of paying tuition and everything. And I worked really hard. I got after I graduated, I got into a really big law firm in Israel. And I worked in the real estate department and I was handling really, really large, really interesting deals. And so I basically got into the real estate department and I learned a lot about real estate. And at some point, I realized that I was on the wrong side of the table, that I wanted to be my investors who were buying lands and developing properties and buying multi-families. And I really wanted to be them. And I do know how to do it, cause I still didn’t have enough to start buying buildings. And so I transitioned to property management cause I wanted to be closer to the business side. And then basically after four or five years of doing that, I decided to move to the US with you know, I was on my second. We, it is what we call a chapter two or chapter B basically. I was dating someone else. I kind of, you know, went through a divorce and decided to shift my life. And I said, okay, mind you, life will be in America because I remember from college learning about the concept of the self-made men. And I knew that if I worked hard, I can make it. And it was really hard to do it in Israel. And I decided to be self-made woman. And I said, okay, I’m going to move. So when I moved to the States, I basically asked myself, what would help you open up doors? And again, education was the answer. And I decided the underachiever that I am to apply to Ivy league schools. And technically it’s not Ivy league, but I got into MIT and I got my MBA degree cause I really wanted to learn more about the business side and learn how to refinance reports, how to build businesses, how to scale them, but also wanted something that would open up the door, you know, for me, for, for Americans to understand who I am, what I stand for. And it’s really hard to do it when you’re coming from another country without anything that they can relate to. And shortly after I graduated, I started investing in real estate and never looked back.

Charles:
So tell us about your first couple investments you had there when you started investing.

Ellie:
Yeah, absolutely. So my first investment, I basically started investing about six or seven months after I started Blake capital and I partnered with someone that was more experienced than me and that helped me get into, there’s always kind of the chicken and the egg problem. Okay. You’re starting out. Everyone has their first deal, but how do you get investors? If you don’t have experience, how do you convince brokers to give you deals if you don’t have experience, but how will you get experience if nobody would invest with you? And, and that’s kind of breaking that cycle. I understood that by working with someone who was more experienced, right, I find what I can bring to the table, then we can team up and basically work together. And that’s what I did. That was the first deal. The second deal was a JV where I basically, because I was heavily heavily networking for a long time, I met a great group in R, I liked how conservative they were. I liked their integrity and we did a deal together. And we said, okay, this is how we’re going to divide the relationship, the responsibilities. You’re going to do A, we’re going to do B and we’re split, you know, the equity. And that was the second deal. And every deal, you know, was bigger with more investors, you know, in, with, with a higher number of units. And that’s kind of how I grew my company.

Charles:
How big were those first two deals unit wise,

Ellie:
The first one deal two deal. So the first one was about 400 units and my role was not as big as the second one. And the third one, obviously every deal, my role kind of increased. The second deal was it was two deals of a hundred and around 130 units combined. It was kind of bought scent almost as a portfolio, but my role there was much bigger. I had, you know, many more investors with me and I took a more active part in the management of the property.

Charles:
Okay. Yeah. For the first deal that I was on, which was with partners is the same thing. And I actually, I actually told them less than what I thought I could do and just to make sure that I wasn’t, they weren’t sending aside too much capital for me to bring to the table that I wasn’t something I was able to do and actually exceeded that with myself and another partner that I brought on. But yeah, no, it’s, it’s quite the exhilarating experience to raise money for the first time when you’re going back to people, you know, and being like, Hey, remember, we’ve been talking and the days come now I have a deal. And do you want to be part of it or not? And it’s you learn a lot about yourself in those two months when you’re freezing money.

Ellie:
Yeah. And I think Charles, that’s kind of the key here. When you go back to people and say, Hey, I have a deal now because the goal is to create, start those conversations and create those relationships way before you have the first deal, whether you partner with someone or you do it on your own, having those conversations to begin with is so key. I don’t think it would be able to bring any investors on my first deal. If I just started speaking with them one, I w when I got involved, you have, you gotta do your homework. Is that if you’re, I’m not saying that this is as complicated, or maybe as important as brain surgery, but a brain surgeon, they don’t just read the book and then go in and cut open brains. They practice. They, you know, they walk by, they basically do a lot of, you know practice surgeries, maybe on bodies. And for sure with, you know, with more experienced, you know, physicians and surgeons. And so this is kind of how you need to do it. You need to prepare the ground. So by the time you’re ready to rock, you have everything lined up. You’ve already done your homework. Cause there’s no time. Once you have a deal 60 to 90 days until you close, that’s not enough to just start the conversation.

Charles:
Yeah. It’s, as one of my partners says, you don’t want to hit them in the face with a cricket mallet or bad, or whatever right away, like in your, when you’re trying to get money from them. So it’s, yeah, it’s a very longterm process. And then you’ve got to figure out exactly. That’s the thing, too, when you’re having those conversations, what people are giving you, how much do I have to give for, you know, how much do I have to a margin for stuff that’s not going to pan out. And then you’re working with partners if, make sure you don’t let them down. So there’s a lot of moving parts to make sure that everything’s, you know, it works out, you guys can close on the property and the investors are the right and the right investors too. You don’t want the wrong investors. You know what I mean? That could even be more of a problem than buying the wrong property.

Ellie:
Oh yes. Very much agree.

Charles:
So currently, you know, you’ve, you did some partnering, you did some JV. So what is your current investing strategy for your company? You know, the assets, the locations, how do you guys usually plan your business plan for that property?

Ellie:
Sure. So we’re focused on class B assets, mainly, you know, properties in the eighties and nineties and early two thousand, a hundred to 400 units. And usually we require, you know, either value, add very light value, add, or also looking to into core-plus or kind of turnkey. So basically properties that don’t require a lot of value add, but I still liked the value add component because that’s what drives returns for the most part. Now with COVID, we’re basically adjusted our strategy a bit. So we do have, we will implement value add, but it’s going to be more like value add on demand. So when there’s a potential tenant sitting in the office would basically present two options. One is to basically co basically rent out the classic unit versus a unit that is not renovated. The second one is, you know, if you want to pay a hundred or $200 more for a renovated unit, which is similar to the model unit, then we can do it. It’s going to take us 10 days to renovate and some choose even today, some choose to go with a renovated model. So we’re not, you know, we’re not ditching that model altogether, so works, but when we’re underwriting deals, now we’re assuming maybe for the next 12 months, maybe 14, 15 months, we’re not going to implement it. It’s going to be pushed a little bit, but that’s kind of our strategy.

Charles:
Yeah. That’s, that was kind of a strategy I had when I started multifamily with smaller multi-families 100% myself was that, you know, you’d buy the property, you do your CapEx, you know, your larger repairs on the property, you know, roofs mechanical stuff that can’t wait. And then as units turn, then we would do the renovations on them. And it’s not, you know, well, you’re not forcing, you’re not forcing the turn as they do with some of these projects now where they’re, Hey, rent’s going up, this module you’re moving out or this, it was kind of like, we let that ride and then we would do it as required. And it’s kind of, it’s less if there’s less risk, because I think it’s not like, it’s like, you know, when you start renovating, especially at higher levels and you start really pushing the rent, it’s kind of like building spec houses. You know what I mean on this? If it’s done on demand, there’s not an issue, you know, like, you know, 10 days you already have it set. So unknown, someone knows already what their timeframe is for getting into that unit. So that’s a great business plan.

Ellie:
Yeah, absolutely.

Ellie:
So what, what are you, you know, you were, you scaling your business, you had different JVs, you had different partners. And tell us about the team that you have in place right now for you guys working on your properties.

Ellie:
Absolutely. So we basically have three different teams. One is the acquisitions team, and that’s a team that helps basically to source deals, speak with brokers, get on market and off market deals, underwrite deals. And then obviously I’m involved with that team. That’s kind of the focus of the company to get the next deal. And in addition, we have the investor relations team, which is involved with getting in touch with investors, answering questions, making sure they get updates on a weekly basis or biweekly basis. And in addition, we have the marketing team, which is basically designed to put, help me put content out there on the web. So investors can learn from, you know, from all the knowledge that I have. I like to share that because again, I’m a huge believer in education. That’s a big part of my success, and I want to share that with others. So for instance, if you go to my website, ElliePerlman.com on the main page on the homepage, you can download for free, very short and very comprehensive guide on the five deal components that every passive investor should examine for instance. But that’s all these things, basically my marketing team, you know, helps put together and distribute on the web.

Charles:
Nice. Yeah. I think most of the time when you’re dealing with passive investors or potential passive investors, the education is the biggest thing that I think you’re the biggest portion of the whole thing of raising money, it’s really just educating the investor and it’s really telling them exactly how it works and how it will work, you know, money goes in here, you get returns here, this which isn’t really spelled out. So it’s kind of, I think we spend most of the time as well, educating the investors on what they can expect from previous deals and then on the ones into the future. So how do you, what kind of for scaling your business, what kind of businesses and what kind of systems you have in place other than your great team that helps you with a number of different portions of your business?

Ellie:
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things that I’ve learned at MIT was the concept of the lean startup. And that’s basically what I’m implementing at Blake. So we don’t have 30, 40, 50 people on the team. There’s no need for that many people. And we’re basically using tools such as air table, which is kind of a software that helps us basically create internal processes. So when, for instance, when there’s an investor that wants to reach out to me, then there’s a very defined process of what happened from the moment they left them. They leave a message on my website until they’re investing in a deal. There are multiple steps and the air table basically allows us to take every step and informed the next guy. Okay. I did a now it’s that B and now I’m assigning the, you know, this to someone else on the team and they know what to do once they get it. And as the company owner, I can use that platform and kind of see, look at the entire process from, from A to Z and see where everything is. That’s one of the tools that we’re using. Another one is we’re using basically KPR, which is key and it’s kind of a system. It’s interesting because I don’t think a lot of companies are using it. So KPR it’s it’s kind of when you have key results and you have, you know, main goals for the company and you set up a few goals for the company, and then you distributed among you basically give each assignment to each team and you say, let’s for instance the, the main goal is, could be increased revenue by 20%. Now, the question is how you do it. And then the key results are increasing deal flow by 30% increasing the returns investor returns by 35%, you basically break it down and you give those assignment to each team and then each team creates their own plan on how they can hit those those goals. So that’s another thing that we’ve been implementing at the Lake.

Charles:
That’s pretty cool. That’s like a reverse engineering and it just kinda, you work backwards and figure out, and then it just leaves every team with what they have to produce or what they have to do over the set period of time to get your results. That’s awesome.

Ellie:
Yeah. And I’m sorry, I actually, I misspoke it’s called OKR, which is objectives and key results. So and I was inspired after I read a book called measure what matters, and it really helps you focus on what was really going to drive your profits. What’s the bottom line and it kind of, it cleans your it’s kind of, sometimes the road is foggy and it helps the clean it and really focus on what’s really important. So you have an objective, which is the, what, for instance, raising profits by 25% and then each objective, and you try to have between three and five objectives per quarter. And then each objective is, you know, basically is broken down to three to five key results, which is the, how so, you know, what we need to do now, how are we going to do it? And sometimes, you know, marketing needs to bring more investors and sometimes the acquisitions in your team needs to review more deals so we can buy more properties. And so that’s how everyone is working towards very similar goal, but in their own kind of fields. And it’s important for all the players to see it and understand where we’re going as a company and how to do it. And it’s kind of, it’s, we’re not working in silos. So everyone is understanding what’s happening with the company.

Speaker 3:
Yeah, that’s, that’s really powerful. That’s something that I haven’t, I haven’t heard before from other syndicators. So that’s a great KPI measurement, which also plans out their goals for the next year or whatever, however timeframe you use. So you raise money for your deals. What methods do usually utilize for finding new investors? And then also obviously you have all the systems in place for managing them and bring the deals to them, but how are you normally finding, finding new investors?

Speaker 2:
So honestly I only had the find investors on my first deal. And then I, I kind of flipped the model and investors find me. So I don’t reach out to be vitals, actively search for them. They find me and it happens after they hear me speak, you know, on a podcast, they read, you know, I write for Forbes. So they read one of my Forbes articles or my own blog, or they listen to my podcast because I put a lot of content out there. It kind of carries the message across the board and people hear me or read about me. And then they reach out to go to my website and they leave a message and they fill out the investor form and that’s how they find me. So the goal is, you know, for me to go is to put as much content as I can out there. Not everyone is reaching out to me and that’s totally fine, but it’s also very satisfying to know that I’ve helped educate someone because I’m such a huge believer, you know, believer in education, but that’s basically how I do it.

Charles:
Awesome. Yeah. So it’s putting out content value, value-add-content to people about how they can become more experienced and more knowledgeable about commercial real estate. Now, when you’re talking about once they come through, you have the systems for them to go through, how are you preparing them through education to learn the business? If it’s their first time say it’s a new potential passive investor that comes into you.

Ellie:
So what is the question exactly? I’m sorry,

Charles:
How are you educating them? Obviously you have like the first few steps you have a system, like, is it, do you put them through a whole?

Ellie:
Yeah. So one of the key things is to make sure that they are sophisticated. So they are pretty much, you know, before they invest with me, I make sure that they won’t, they’re already educated and they know all the risks that are involved with investing in this litigation, all the benefits. And cause otherwise I, I don’t work with every investor, every type of investor out there. And some of them we say, listen, this is not a good fit. Let’s check in in six months. Let’s see if, you know, your level of education has changed. But basically I have, there’s a lot of content on, you know, the blog posts that basically they can read and educate themselves and learn how to invest and what to be aware of, how to analyze a passive deal, how to vet syndicators, what to ask them. I, on the website, I also put a lot of spreadsheets for free that people can download and they can use it to analyze gills as passive investors. It doesn’t have to be as robust as you know, as there are a lot of programs out there that also can help investors that are not accredited. And it’s a kind of a misconception that only accredited investors can invest in a syndication. And it’s not true. I definitely, I work with both type with investors that are accredited, not accredited. And I know that many other syndicators do, and there are programs out there. I have one, for instance, that investors can take the course and then they can basically become sophisticated because if you’re not accredited, you have to be sophisticated. Meaning you have to learn enough about real estate. You have to know enough to understand if the decision you’re making is the right one to basically make an informed decision and not just a decision to invest. So there are many ways to do it there. You know, I don’t want to promote myself too much, but there’s a lot of content. There are multiple syndicators that have, that are offering courses that can help you, you know, help an investor and become sophisticated after they go through that course. So it’s definitely possible.

Charles:
Right, So as you’re educating them, you’re also vetting them to make sure that they fit perfectly for what you’re doing, which is super important to make sure that everybody’s on the same page when you’re in a partnership that could last seven, 10 years plus depending on what the business plan is for that property. So that’s awesome.

Ellie:
Yeah, absolutely.

Charles:
So what do you think are the main factors that have led you to success in real estate so fast and your investing career?

Speaker 2:
I would say I never give up it’s something that is it’s from my childhood. Basically. I never gave up and people when I was little and I said, I’m going to be successful one day. I think it was 13 or 14 years old. And my family members kind of rolled their eyes at, okay, you’re, you’re dreaming, you know, you’re dreaming too much and you’re going to get burned. And I said, just watch me. When I wanted to when I started applying to, to to business schools and Ivy league schools, I was told by a mentor that I had in Israel that I’m never going to succeed in the States. And he said, you’re not American. You’re not, you’re not a guy and you’re not a men. And your chances of succeeding are so little. And that was the last conversation I’ve ever had with him because I looked at him and I said, wait a minute, who am I getting an advice from? How successful is he? And that kind of changed the way that I saw mentors. And I always tell people when you’re getting advice from someone, look at how well they’re doing in the area of, you know, in, in, in, in the area of that advice. So basically if someone is giving you advice about relationships, look at their relationships are they’re successful. If not, then why would you listen to them? And I switched to I got another mentor but also the, the company that I hired to help me write, you know, direct me on what to write in the applications for business school, for instance, they also said, listen, it’s really a stretch that you’re going to get there. Usually you need to be from a wealthy family and, or be an engineer and, or have 780 your Gmat. And I didn’t have those things. And so I never gave up, it doesn’t matter what others told me. And then when I started investing in real estate, they said, you’re crazy. You’re you had such a great job. You know, six figures, you don’t work hard. What’s wrong with you? Why would you do that? And again, I didn’t listen. And I think once you decide that this is what you want to do, it’s a decision, but also a part of it is a belief that you can do it. And even if you can’t, you can trick yourself into thinking that you can, because the more you say to yourself, the more you think about it, the more you would buy into it. I, it, it doesn’t matter what others are thinking and I’ve just, I’ve seen it all along. And there’s a reason why only a small percentage of the population as well off because most people are motivated by fear. I really don’t think that the people who were trying to prevent me from making, taking the steps that I’ve taken throughout my career, I don’t think they did it to harm me that were seriously concerned about me, but they were looking at it from their prison of fear because that’s what led their own decisions. And that’s why they’re in a certain place in life today. And I mean a different place. So just never give up.

Charles:
And then lastly, before we wrap up here, I want to know what are some mistakes you’ve made early on in your real estate investing career? There’s probably a lot of them as everybody has.

Ellie:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m trying to think which one is the most interesting one. I would say underestimate the amount of capital you need to bring to a deal. So when you have a deal and you run the numbers and you say, okay, I need, for instance, $5 million and you go in, you target 5 million and you bring $5 million, but then one guy. So I had an investor that, you know, passed away another investor that changed his mind. And so those things happen. And I didn’t, for me when someone either wired the money or said I’m in and find the, the PPM, the private placement memorandum for me was a done deal. But things always happen in life is, you know, life has always surprising us. Obviously, you know, we have what we have right now and, you know, we have a pandemic, things are changing so quickly. And so always plan to raise, I would say between 15 to 15 to 20% more than what you actually need and do it on a first come first serve basis and always plan to, you know, not have enough capital only to be pleasantly surprised that that’s, it you’re done. And once they switched to that strategy cause I’ve done this mistake once and I had to scramble last minute. So I wired my own funds and then I had to find investors. It was really stressful once I actually targeted a much higher equity raise amount. I was overfunded on each and every deal and I still ha cause they keep telling investors it’s for some first, first come first serve. Then there’s always those who can get in into a deal because by the time they say, okay, I’m in, it’s already closed, but I was able to get to that point because I was targeting a much higher raise and I actually needed to, that’s one of the biggest mistakes that I’ve done early in my career. And I, I had to do it only once to feel the pain and never do it again.

Charles:
Yeah, for sure. I would say to new syndicators, I talked to it’s raised twice as much than plan on for your first indication, 50% is going to kick out. And if they don’t, you’re in a great position because now you can write back. Not that you want to do it, but you send an email back, Hey, we’re oversubscribed, I’ll keep you updated on the next one. And you know, we have other interesting opportunities and on and on, but yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s much easier. I know exactly what you’re talking about. Cause I went through that first day.

Ellie:
So you know what I’m talking about. Yeah,

Speaker 3:
Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it all, it all panned out. It’s all, it all works out. It’s just something that, I mean, it’s not something normally that you do it’s, you know what I mean? So it’s, it’s not something normally that you can’t really teach anybody. You can teach someone all the parts up to it, but to actually do it, I mean, it’s, whoever’s mentor. It is, they’re not your, they’re not his investors. They’re your investors. So know there’s no way of you, like, Hey, prepare for this, but you don’t know what’s going to happen. I mean, like you said, you had people after they sign, even after the money goes and stuff changes, and now you’re with it. Now you have it, you’re in a conundrum now you don’t know what to do. So you have to, you know, make sure that they’re happy, make sure their whole because like I said, the last thing like you were saying before too, you gotta vet that investor and make sure it actually fits into what you’re trying to do. So.

Ellie:
Absolutely.

Charles:
So how can people learn more about you and your business Ellie?

Ellie:
So they can go to ElliePerlman.com. You can just Google Ellie Perlman and Ellie is E L L I E. And you can find information about me. You can reach out to me through that website. I also run a mentoring program and I teach how to do what I do. So all information is there. You can find everything you want, you know, my life story, you can leave a message. You can do whatever you want. It’s a really fun website. And my team has invested a lot of time and effort into it. So I’m sure you can, you know, you’ll, you’ll find it pretty interesting.

Charles:
Yeah. That, and just to say that the course you have on your website, I was looking at all the different portions of it. It’s a very in depth course that you offer. So that’d be something someone’s interested. They can learn everything they can right there. So we’ll thank you so much for being on the show today. Looking forward to connecting with you in the near future.

Ellie:
Absolutely. Charles, thank you for having me.

Charles:
Hi guys! It’s Charles from the Global Investors Podcast. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you’re interested in get involved with real estate, but you don’t know where to begin, set up a free 30 minute strategy call with me at schedulecharles.com. That’s schedulecharles.com. Thank you.

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Announcer:
Nothing in this episode should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Any investment opportunities mentioned on this podcast are limited to accredited investors. Any investments will only be made with proper disclosure, subscription documentation, and are subject to all applicable laws. Please consult an appropriate tax legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of harborside partners incorporated exclusively.

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About Ellie Perlman

Ellie Perlman is a real estate investor who owns multifamily properties across the U.S. Ellie is the Founder and CEO of Blue Lake Capital, a real estate investing firm specializing in multifamily investments. At Blue Lake Capital, Ellie helps investors grow their wealth by investing alongside her in large multifamily deals.
Ellie leads a mentoring program, REady2Scale, where she coaches people to become multifamily syndicators by building a syndication business and scaling it.
She started her career as a commercial real estate lawyer, leading real estate transactions for Israel’s largest real estate company. Later, she transitioned to a property manager role and oversaw properties worth over $100MM.
Ellie holds Masters in Law and an MBA from MIT Sloan School of Management. She is a Forbes author and a real estate investing podcast host.
In her spare time, Ellie enjoys working out, driving sports cars, skiing black diamonds, and angel investing.

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